How Do We Think About our Bodies in a Healthy Way? with Hannah Holzum

Christian: Let's get real. Who wants to have another surface- level conversation?

Samantha: Not us. I'm Samantha.

Christian: And I'm Christian. Two friends having raw but truth- filled conversations about the messiness of life.

Samantha: So buckle up and don't be shy.

Christian: Because yep, we're Going There.

Samantha: We're Going There. Hi, guys. We are back for another fun interview. I like how we're kind of throwing in some just random interviews this summer, doing some of our little one- offs, but we have our friend Hannah here with us today. Welcome.

Hannah: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Samantha: Yeah.

Christian: We are so excited for you to join us today. We had some conversations earlier this summer guys, if you listened at all, about eating and body image. And honestly, Hannah has been a fan of Going There for a while now, and so we connected with her and it was really fun to get to know her. And after we released previous episodes about eating habits, we got some more just feedback from you guys that we wanted to kind of dive deeper into this topic. And so we are going to be talking about body image today with Hannah. But even before we dive into that, why don't you start off telling us a little bit about yourself? What does life look like for you? What's your education and... Yeah, just talk to us about what life looks like.

Hannah: Sure. Well, I'm so happy to be here with you guys because I feel like normally I'm taking you on a walk with my dog, with you guys in my ear. And so it's fun to actually get to be here.

Christian: That's so fun.

Hannah: The other day, I texted a girl and asked if she wanted to get coffee and she's like," I'm having a weird moment because I saw your name pop up on the screen, but I'm listening to your voice right now." I think," Oh God-"

Samantha: That's kind of weird.

Hannah: So creepy.

Samantha: Yeah, yeah.

Christian: Kind of creepy.

Hannah: Yeah. Well I'm Hannah and I'll start off by talking about my family first. I've been married to my husband Garrett for about 14 years. We've got three kids, all girls, that keep us really, really busy. I am a registered dietician, I'm a retired personal trainer too so I've been in the health field, the nutrition and fitness field, for probably 15 years or so. And I have my own business, I do nutrition coaching and I actually also do a meal plan subscription service, which wasn't part of my original plan. But the more I coached, especially moms, the more I realized how stressful the evening meal is. And you guys know, you guys have little kids.

Christian: Oh yes.

Hannah: When you're trying to eat healthy and you have picky eaters, it can be really overwhelming to know what to make. And so I have like a dinner meal subscription service, I do with that too. So yeah, I get to work with all kinds of people and it's a lot of fun too. I feel like nutrition affects everybody, and everybody has different needs and yeah. So that's a little bit of how I spend my days. And then the evenings, of course I'm running those kids around to practices and all things.

Christian: Yeah. I love that because obviously how you have gone through all of that training of yours has developed over time and now you being a mom. And so you've morphed and changed with that. And I love that because it looks different in like different seasons for sure. But talk to us about body image. Obviously we see that... I mean, we are all women here on this conversation, and body image is a big topic that a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about sometimes. But talk to us about that. You know, it's something generation to generation, we all grew up with parents probably who diet, culture wanting to stay healthy and fit. Talk to us about why do you feel like this is just such a struggle for women, and what's that looked like in your life specifically?

Hannah: Yes. Well I love that you guys are talking about this first of all, because I would say for the most part, we think of women when we think of body image and so many women struggle with body image issues. But it really does affect everyone. I mean, I've worked with males that have issues with body image and kids. Oh my gosh, kids too. And I think it's such a big deal because bodies are... Like it's in our face 24/7. You can't hop in the car and not hear a commercial for a supplement store saying," Hey, come get these fat burners." And you know, it's just always there. And then of course, social media too.

Samantha: Now TikTok, it's constantly like," Try this low calorie version of like this or that."

Christian: And like,"Buy this corset. It'll make your waist tiny."

Hannah: Yes, yes.

Samantha: Haven't seen that. Geez.

Christian: Oh yeah.

Hannah: There's everything out there.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: But you know, I really think that it's something that we deal with starting at such a young age too. You know, one of the jobs that I worked, I worked in a children's hospital for about eight years and the number of kids who start having body image issues, it's really sad. Like you don't think that it probably starts that young, and for some people it doesn't. But a lot of those kids, they hear parents talking about dieting or wanting to lose weight. Or now too, I feel like kids are online so much earlier and they see stuff. But I think for women, we have that, you know, that desire to want to look good. And then even things as you get older and having kids and your body changes and now we're faced with," Oh my gosh, I'm older now. Like what's my body doing?" And it's everywhere. So I think everybody just... It's in your face all the time and everyone's always evaluating how they should look or what they should be doing to look their best.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: And because we live in a world that is sinful, and we'll talk more about kind of like how the Bible and just like our faith comes into our body image in a little bit, but it is kind of like well, we have this reality to know our bodies are never going to be perfect, whether that's our physical health or our appearance, outwardly what people see. But it's really hard... I guess it's really easy to kind of apply that to other things in our life. Maybe if it's our mental health or maybe things we struggle with, it's like," Well yeah, I can have grace for myself because I know I'm never going to be perfect in the way that I speak to my spouse or great in friendships in this way." But it's with our body. For some reason, we forget that it's like," Yeah, our bodies aren't supposed to be perfect." But we apply this perfectionistic mold to ourselves even though we know deep down it's not even ever going to be that way. So it's kind of odd to me.

Samantha: Yeah. It really is.

Christian: That is so weird because I think even like growing up in a household that as going to church and growing up, we're taught that obviously we're created by God with purpose and design. And so he made our bodies for good things. And so we all know that, all of us sitting in this room. We've read all the verses of just what intention we're created with. But somehow we lose that in our minds when thinking through like our bodies were made for good, but then how do we not obsess over that? So like how do you hold that tension, Hannah? How do you talk to people about that, of like," God made my body for good. I need to keep it healthy. I need to keep it strong." But then what does that look like to not obsess over that?

Hannah: Yeah. I think so many people separate out your inside and you're outside. You know, there's this," Okay, well I've got my, my inside my heart and everything. But then I've got my outside and that's totally different." And you kind of almost separate this, your outward appearance and your inward appearance, and it really shouldn't be that way. You know? We're focused on the look and not what we're made to do and the purpose of what we're made to do. And I even think too, this doesn't even really have anything to do... Well kind of, but not like with women. But you know, you think about even when Samuel's out looking for a king and you remember the scripture of God saying," Oh, I'm looking in at the heart, not the size," like not the person. And so I think encouraging ourselves to come back to that and remember that what our outside is looking like and this goal that we might have that we're trying to get to isn't really...

Christian: The point.

Hannah: It's not the point.

Christian: Yeah.

Hannah: It's not the point. And really, I mean maybe I'm going off on a tangent here, but you can really-

Christian: No, I love it.

Hannah: You can really look at... With body image, I feel like in some ways we're doing a lot better. I feel like a lot of companies and like athletic wear, you know, are showing all different body sizes and things like that. So I feel like in some ways it's getting better, but now you almost see this extreme too where it's like," Eat whatever you want and celebrate your body," but that might not be taking care of it either.

Samantha: Yes. That's a good point. I was listening to something the other day and it was just talking about how nowadays it's really, really looked down upon her almost like considered toxic if you talk about being on a diet and like toxic diet culture. And granted, there are so many habits and I think this plays a lot into our conversation with our friend who talked about intuitive eating. Obviously there are people that so struggle with food that I understand why any kind of diet or restriction could feel really scary or just kind of like a bad path for them to be on. But it's also like there are times when we need to like pull back. I mean, that's part of discipline too, in our bodies, and you can't just go crazy all the time and feel your best, in that you can't like look your best if that's... You know, I know we're talking about body image but you do like want to feel good. I don't know. My husband always says," When you feel good, you look good. When you look good, you feel good," and it is kind of true. It's not necessarily about what it looks like on the outside but when you're feeling really healthy and you have the most energy that your body can have, it's like you feel your best. And so there has to be restrictions sometimes too.

Hannah: Yeah. And we just see these big extremes. I mean, even in the nutrition world. Like there are other dieticians out there that will get into heated conversation because we've got this really big pull for like a health at every size and that's absolutely true. You cannot judge someone's health off their size at all. And so there's really... You know, when I think about like," Oh, your ideal body weight," or what a doctor tells you should weigh, I don't really believe that because I think you know and you're made up differently. God makes all of us different, and some of us have more muscle mass and some don't. And some are more petite and some aren't. But then you also have this other pole where I think a lot of people fall when they have this negative body image of," Restrict, restrict, restrict. I'm just not going to eat. I'm going to starve myself." Well that is also not treating your body well either. I mean, you're not nourishing it. If you're not nourishing it well, you can't go out and do all the good things. And so it's really this middle ground that I try to teach, but really where everyone should be because Samantha, like you said, I mean there is a point where you do need to pay attention and make sure you're having the healthy things too. So that's where I think that this whole topic can get a little hard because it's kind of this gray middle ground area and this balance between taking care of yourself but also not knowing that your idea of what your perfect body would look like may not be how God made your body to look. You know?

Christian: Yeah. I love that we're just recognizing the tension between those two, because that is just what it is. There's a tension between staying fit and keeping mindful of like," God created this to be a good thing. And we should be taking care of these bodies that He created us as like temples for Him, for His good works." But then how do we not obsess with that? I'm so curious, you obviously have three girls, how do you talk to your children about this? And then even in your coaching business, like how do you coach people about this though?

Hannah: Oh, I love this question-

Christian: Like how do you talk about that tension?

Hannah: I love this question because, like I tell my friends all the time," If I can just get my daughters through, if they can just get into adulthood and love their bodies and know how nutrition works and have a good relationship with their bodies, like my job will be done." But yeah, it is, it can be challenging. And I think that's where a lot of body image issues start. Luckily for me growing up, my mom, I never remember her talking bad about her body. And she didn't have the healthiest diet, she wasn't super active. But you know, she was busy but she never commented on those things and she never commented, for sure never commented on my body. And so it really wasn't even until I got to college that I realized," Oh, now some of my friends in college are doing diets and some of these things." And so I think about that a lot with my own kids. And even though I know it affects boys and girls, I think girls are just a little bit more prone. And then my daughters also do competitive gymnastics, competitive cheer. And we know when you're in a skintight leotard, I mean you are just out there for everyone to see. And I think, like I had mentioned before, I think that we're doing a better job. And you can even see in sports these days, gymnasts have muscle.

Samantha: Oh my gosh, yes.

Hannah: They're not these like 80 pound sticks anymore.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: Like they have muscle and cheerleaders have muscle. And you know, all sports. And so with my girls, I've just started at a very young age talking about," Food is fuel." Like," Yes, we will go get ice cream after practice," or," Yes, you can have those Oreos or you can have a root beer if you want," whatever," But those aren't going to fuel you." Well, you know, before. And even outside of sports, if you have kids, if you're listening and you have kids that aren't in sports yet, even just talking about," This fruit is really great for us. Like it gives us good energy. And you know, these veggies have lots of good nutrients in it that are going to help us to stay healthy." Or you know, talking about the protein and how this gives us muscles. And desserts are great, they're so delicious, and we should get to enjoy a little bit of it. But too much isn't going to make our bodies feel very good. And so I think when you can approach it like that and talk to your kids in that conversation. Like even at meal times, sitting down to talk about," Oh this," you know," Let's talk about why these strawberries are important," and making it just more of an educational thing. I don't know, I have found even with my kids, my oldest is 11 and she'll say," Oh, I really want one of those cinnamon rolls but I've got practice. Will you save one for me for after?"

Samantha: Oh, that's cool.

Hannah: "I'm going to have this." And it's not that she's not eating. I mean, she goes and she gets her Nutella toast and she'll get some fruit and she gets her stuff and you know. But she just already can recognize those things.

Christian: Gosh, I have so many questions for you. I want to like keep diving into all these things because I'm like... That's so interesting to me because I have children, now they're almost four and two. And I'm like even now, I mean my son's in the stage of like repeating everything I say. And so even in the smallest ways I will walk out and I'm like... I'll ask my husband like," Andrew, does this make me like look fat?" And I'm like," Wait, why am I asking that?"

Hannah: Yeah.

Christian: Like it's so dumb but then I'm listening, like I'm hearing him, or I'm watching him listen to me and I'm like," Why am I saying that in front of him?" And like we talk a lot about food. Like I have too, I grew up in the home where yeah, food is fuel, and that has been so helpful for me. But I have for sure had seasons, and so I think it's just so hard to like, yeah, teach your children those things and mold their minds in that way. But then also recognize," That cinnamon roll's not going to help you before practice. But it's okay to have it afterwards."

Hannah: Yeah. It's not bad.

Christian: That, it's just so hard though and it's like you have to be so specific and thoughtful about what you're saying all the time.

Hannah: You do.

Christian: It's so hard.

Hannah: And we even like... And I remember talking to Garrett, my husband, early on. I was like," Look," because he's very health conscious too. And you know, one time he said," Hey, do you know how many calories this has in it?" And you know, just out of curiosity. And one of my kids is like," What's a calorie?" And I like looked at him like and then-

Christian: I wear it in our home, yeah.

Hannah: And then I turned and I said," Well," and I gave this scientific, you know," This is how much energy it takes to burn." He's looking at me like-

Christian: Go, mom.

Hannah: "Are you kidding me?" She's five. But you know, I was just like," Oh, a calorie's the energy. Like all food has energy in it." And so you know, kind of giving it more so that explanation. Because you're right, like the things we say in front of our kids, they pick up on those things, you know? And...

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: I do think it is. I also grew up in a household where I never remember my mom saying like," I feel fat or..." I remember her like saying," Oh, I want my clothes to fit and feel really good," and so I would see her kind of cut back after a vacation or whatever. But I feel the same way. It's not something I really realized until I got to college where I heard girls tell me," Oh, my mom controlled every single thing I ate in high school." I mean, I knew a girl who her mom truly would text her at school in high school and be like," What are you having for lunch?"

Samantha: Wow.

Hannah: I mean, just like... I was shocked by it but now I'm realizing like," It's really not that shocking because if we're just like passing on these unhealthy things that obviously stem from her mom having really unhealthy views and relationships with food, and so of course that's going to be passed on." But it's interesting because my husband is the same way, he's super health conscious. So I'm constantly like hey, for you to throw out," Oh I'm feeling so fat from all the ice cream I've eaten," it's like that just... We know you're joking, but like to her, she's going to start associating like," Oh, if I eat a lot of ice cream, am I going to be fat?" Just this like weird connotation. And so I don't know, with my four year old, we have something going on right now. We were at Sam's and saw this giant box of like... You know the mini muffins? Like the chocolate mini muffins?

Samantha: Oh yeah.

Christian: Emerson loves her mini muffins.

Hannah: Okay. So she had never... Like muffins are her favorite food, so I would always buy just like more from a bakery and they would be a treat kind of. Like you know, we're not just eating those for breakfast, but maybe after breakfast." Okay, you can have one if you ate like your fruit or whatever." Well, we got these mini muffins and it's this giant box with like 50 bags or something-

Samantha: I know the exact box you're talking about.

Hannah: And I'm like," Why did I..." I didn't want to go through the battle in Sam's. And I also didn't want to be like," We don't eat things like that in our home because it's super processed." And like I would never normally buy them, so I was like," Yeah, sure, we can bring the mini muffins home." So we have all these mini muffins, and it's become a daily battle because I had told her from the beginning," You can have one bag a day." Well, of course she eats one bag and like I'll give it to her. It's like three tiny mini muffins, like it's really not that many. And so we have had to like really battle and me just having to explain to her, it's like," I'm not trying to forbid you for having something that you like, but you know what it feels like when your stomach hurts after something, and then you can't go play outside with your friends or you're not going to feel good at tennis or when you go to swim lessons this afternoon." And so it's just funny because I'm like seeing that right now, we're down to two bags of muffins. And this morning she asked me for a bag-

Christian: You're like," The fight is almost over-"

Hannah: It's almost over.

Christian: "We have almost made it."

Hannah: Yeah, she was like,"Okay-"

Christian: inaudible buying her another box.

Hannah: "No, please don't." She went into the pantry and she wanted a bag. And then I think she saw that there were only two and she's like," I'm going to save it for later." And I'm like," See? That's smart. Like you're saving it." Whereas my husband was kind of like," Just let her eat six bags and then her stomach will hurt." And I'm like," No," because knowing her it probably wouldn't and then it's just like,"I can eat as many muffins as I want." Anyways, I'm seeing that so tangibly and it is so interesting how you kind of have to catch yourself as you're talking about it because you're like... We have all these unhealthy things that are floating around in our head, so you kind of have to filter through what you're going to teach and pass on. And I just think we have so much more awareness of speaking about it in a healthy way versus the way that our parents probably didn't. And so I think we're... Like you said, it's getting better.

Samantha: Yes. Well, and for sure. And you think about when we were growing up, it was such... Well at least I feel like it was such a low fat world and like," Fat and oh, fat. And it makes you fat, it makes you fat," and all this thing. And now we know with research, that's not necessarily true. There are some healthier fats than others but they are very... They can be very beneficial. And so it is nice that we have that now. But just like you told your daughter, you know," If you eat too many of these, it's not going to make you feel very good." I mean, those are the kinds of things... That's how kids understand rather than saying things like," Oh, you have too many, that's more than you need."

Hannah: Yeah, yeah.

Samantha: You know?

Christian: Yeah. Hannah, if I can ask you a personal question if you're for it, I want to talk to you because you mentioned earlier about just like having children in your body, changing from that and just getting older and your body changing from that. Walk us through, like what have those seasons looked like for you, because obviously you are in this space, you are a nutritionist and a personal trainer. But what does that look like for you? Because I'm sure you probably struggle through those things and you've had thoughts or your friends have had thoughts and you guys talk about this in your community. But what does that... Like walk us through, what's your brain? What are you thinking through? What are you feeling in those seasons that you're like," I don't feel my best physically," or," I don't like what my body looks like." Yeah.

Hannah: Yeah. You know, honestly I feel like I never... Like growing up and even like when I got married, I really never had... I mean, I'm sure I probably had some thoughts that I just have forgotten because mom brain. But you know, like I don't remember having thoughts of like negative body image thoughts to myself until really I had kids. And even though I would still say I have a fairly good body image, there are still things. I mean, things don't look the same, you know, your skin changes and metabolism changes. And yeah, that can really... I mean, it can be hard to work through. And I think keeping yourself grounded and knowing in your head and your heart that you know," God also made me to have babies," or you know that's a normal part of aging and of life and that you're going to look a little different. And that doesn't mean that you have to give up and just," This is what it is," you know? I mean, it just may mean that things may feel a little harder or that you just have to be a little bit more mindful with things. But yeah, I know it affects my friends and just the women that I work with too, you know, aging and after having kids and that can really... You know, it can really be a challenge. But also I think when you can look at yourself and know, like look what I've gone through and I've done this, like good things have come from this. You know, you're not always going to have the body that you had when you were 22 years old, you know? That it's changing. But yeah, I think sometimes it just takes a little bit more, I don't know, effort-

Samantha: Just mindfulness too, yeah.

Hannah: Yeah.

Christian: I think body image is one of those things too, I feel like in my life... I mean, I have like a great group of friends or my husband. There's some times when we've talked about this on the podcast before but in body image specifically, sometimes I just need to say the thing out loud. Like I need to say like," You know, Andrew, I feel really fat today," or like," I'm just not feeling good about myself," or like," I hate what my body looks like post, you know, having my daughter," or whatever that may be, because I need to say it out loud with safe people, people who are going to say like," Christian, no. Like you look great, I understand like maybe your body doesn't feel the way you do. But you just had a baby, you know, four months ago," or whatever it may be. I think you do need to somehow find a core group of people if that's your spouse or whatever, probably not so you say something in front of your kids, but like find safe people to kind of say those things in front of to be like," But this is genuinely how I'm feeling," but I then can recognize like,'But that's not true. And that's not really how I feel about my body, but it's just like how I'm feeling today."

Samantha: Or even to kind of point you back to like," Well, why are you like... Are you like hyper focusing on that-"

Christian: Are you obsessing about it, yeah.

Samantha: "Are you putting too much value in the way that your body looks or like how it looked right before your baby and that you feel like you're going to be a happier person when you're back to some ideal?" And so I think it's good to have people that can also kind of speak that hard. Like," Actually, I think you're caring about that a little bit too much right now when you should just be enjoying your four month old," or whatever it is, you know?

Hannah: Oh, I love that. I feel like there's a few things I was catching off that-

Samantha: Yeah. Sorry, sorry.

Hannah: No. But I think when you had mentioned, you know," Are you going to feel better?" Like is that what's going to make you happy? Like getting to that certain size, is that... Are you truly going to find happiness? Like we know you're not. Like you might like the way that you look a little bit better, but you're not going to find ultimate happiness from your look, you know? And so I think yes, having friends that can be honest with you and tell you," You know, hey-"

Christian: Yeah.

Hannah: "That's okay. If you want to, you know, I'll... Yeah-"

Samantha: "I'll hold you accountable," Yeah-

Hannah: "I'll inaudible with you, I'll..." Yeah," I'll pack my lunch with you and do these things with you. But ultimately yeah, you're not going to find your true happiness from your size."

Samantha: Right, right. That's good. So we're kind of, we're talking about how we're constantly inundated with just these messages of our body image and kind of forcing us to think about it. So what are some practical things we can do to kind of counteract that? We've kind of mentioned a few times, we know we have to be very thoughtful and mindful about it to battle it. So how can we do that practically? And then what would be some just red flags that you can start kind of self- checking and saying," Oh yeah, this is getting out of hand. I'm either over obsessing about it or I need to be realistic that I'm not feeling my best and I want to get to a place where I can."

Hannah: Yeah. I think red flags, one of the top ones I think about is if you're following... If you're on social media and you're following certain accounts. Or maybe it's a friend, I don't know. Something that's making you judge yourself that much more harshly. I mean, I'm sure you guys have followed accounts that it's like," Oh gosh. Oh she's got the perfect body. Or why can't I... Oh, I should just do the workouts that she's doing." And let me tell you as a dietician, I can give two people the same height, the same weight, the same age, the exact same diet, the exact same workout, and their bodies are going to look different. They're going to look different. So you cannot compare yourself to somebody that you're following online that probably has Photoshopped photos.

Samantha: Yes.

Hannah: So I would say red flags and some ways to work through that would be to just stop looking at whatever it is that's making you feel worse about yourself. I think anytime you are so ultra focused on it that you're... It almost becomes an idol, like this is what's so important and it's taking your every thought. You know, we know that's not a good place either. So I think some practical things that we can do, honestly the biggest one is just to focus on your overall health. Stop looking at the number on the scale. Because what I find is when people focus more on the action steps rather than the finish line, or the action steps rather than the scale, that's really when people see their best self. And that's when everything starts to click. So thinking about," Am I nourishing my body well? Because if I'm starving myself, I am not nourishing my body well." So really bringing it back to the healthy things. And one thing I think is so wrong with the world today, in the nutrition world today, is that we're so focused... The nutrition world is so focused on taking things out. So it's like," Cut this, cut that, cut..." I mean, you see it all the time. Or there's time limits," Do this 30 day thing." I mean, it just kills me. I'm like," Okay, and then what?"

Samantha: And then you're back to your habits.

Hannah: And now you're in worse shape than you were.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: Because now your head's all messed up around this space. But we're so focused about taking everything out. I think when you can focus on adding the good things in.

Samantha: I like that.

Hannah: You know, colorful plates. Like taking it back to the easy things." Am I having a serving a fruit or vegetable each time I'm eating?" Or even if you don't eat fruits and vegetables, maybe you just start by doing one a day. Like I'm going to do one serving a fruit every single day consistently. Because we know that habits build upon other habits. And so starting small like that and really just treating your body well. Maybe you don't exercise and you don't feel great about your body. Maybe you start taking a walk, and you do like a 20 minute walk three times a week. You know? So I think just starting small and doing things that you know are going to benefit you and help you to feel better. And I think it's good to reach out to others too, whether that's an accountability partner or a coach or somebody that you feel like could help you through that time. You know, that's a great place to be and to get started. And I think having friends and cheerleaders and people there to help you rather than focusing on all these not so great behaviors-

Christian: Unrealistic ideas, yeah.

Samantha: Yeah. Someone told me one time that, and I think it was like a fellow dietician or trainer. They were like," You know, I hear people all the time that are just like okay, maybe it's at New Year's or after a vacation or when they're just like fed up with the way that they've been living, it's like I'm going all in on..." I know I've personally done like multiple rounds of the Whole 30 kind of diet or it's like you go so extreme where this person was saying," I challenge clients of mine, they have to drink a certain amount of water for a month and they have to like hit that goal most every day before they could like move on to the next thing." Because if you're not serious enough to like kind of do those small steps, then you're probably going to fail with jumping all in to like this extreme kind of thing. Or maybe you do this extreme thing, like we were saying for the month, but then it's not sustainable because that's not kind of a lifelong change in that way.

Hannah: Yes.

Christian: Yeah. I loved what you said though, is like maybe you're in better like physical shape but like mentally, you're totally messed up in this space now.

Hannah: Yes.

Christian: Of like yeah, that extreme behavior is not sustainable long term. And like you're actually doing more harm than like help in like your mind and what you now are thinking about that space anyways.

Hannah: Oh, I've seen people come to me with new eating disorders because they don't know how to eat anymore because they've done things-

Christian: Yeah, so sad.

Hannah: That are so restrictive. You know? And they've taken all of these things out. So yes, like you're talking about the person, you're talking about like," Yes, yes. These small, small steps that you can start and then you can build upon them that are just," I mean they're natural things, you know? Drinking more water, eating more fruits and vegetables. Trying to eat more foods that are, you know, in their natural state. But also knowing yeah, you might have a package of mini muffins here and there, you might have, you know, like-

Christian: Small Berry Skittles.

Samantha: And just being able to have this balance, and we talked about this again in intuitive eating, that we all like... We, I know Christian and I, like we love food. Like we have... We're in a fun supper club with some friends. We like... I look at my week and I'm like," Oh, are we getting together with dinner with anyone?" Like I just love the idea of like sitting across the table, maybe having a glass of wine and just like getting to interact with people that way. So it's like when you can find freedom in these areas, you can enjoy food the way it was meant to be enjoyed and not have to have so much mental space taking up with thinking about food all the time.

Christian: Yeah. And I loved what you said about adding in, like what can I add in and not take away, I think that's again like a very tangible," No, let's switch our mindset in this way." You said so many good things.

Hannah: Because I'm going to tell you, when you start taking your favorites out, you will never stick to it.

Christian: Yeah, no.

Hannah: That's so true. Like I will never have a life where I don't have pizza and Nutella and the things that I like. I won't, you know?

Christian: Yeah.

Samantha: There you go.

Hannah: That's true.

Christian: Yeah. That's amazing.

Samantha: Well, we appreciate this conversation and before we go, we want to hear... Well, one thing we were going to ask, we've been asking everyone like one thing on their summer bucket list is, but I also want to ask you what's your favorite like summer go- to meal that you're just like," I crave that more in the summer, I've been making it all summer long." What is that for you?

Hannah: Okay, so favorite summer meal. I tend to do a little easier I would say in the summer, just because it feels like, you know, you come in later. I don't know. It's a little different.

Samantha: It's all the heat.

Hannah: Yes.

Samantha: I don't have as much energy all day after the heat that affects me, I think.

Hannah: Yes. Well there's two go- tos. Actually I made one last night, but I love to do it's called salsa fresca chicken. And you just take a chicken breast, you do salt, pepper, garlic powder, and cumin and you sprinkle that on top. You sprinkle pico de gallo on top, and you just buy it pre- packaged, and a little Monterey Jack cheese on top. Bake it, I think it's like 375 for 30 minutes. It's so good.

Samantha: It's so easy.

Hannah: It tastes so summery.

Christian: Yeah.

Hannah: The tomatoes and the onion and everything. You know, everything in the pico de gallo, yeah. So good. So I love that. We also, like super easy, people are listening are probably like,"You're a dietician." But we do like lightly breaded chicken tenders, frozen chicken tenders. Like on those late nights where we might be at the pool or just running around and we'll put those in the air fryer, throw them on a salad, throw them in a wrap.

Samantha: So good on a salad.

Hannah: The kids like them. But you can put like... I'll sprinkle some buffalo sauce on it. So that's a really easy... That's been one of my easy summer go- to-

Samantha: My mouth's kind of watering.

Christian: Yeah. Those are good. I love buffalo sauce.

Hannah: Oh, and then also I feel like I heard you guys say on a podcast, you're into Greek.

Christian: Oh yeah, Mediterranean bowls are like our fav.

Samantha: I love Mediterranean bowls.

Hannah: Yeah. Well I've got a Greek chicken wrap for you guys too I'll have to share.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: It's pretty good.

Samantha: Share that. Maybe we can share one of your recipes with our followers.

Hannah: Yeah.

Samantha: When you're... When this episode comes out.

Christian: Yes.

Samantha: And then what something on your summer bucket list?

Hannah: Oh, this is fun. I love a list and I love a challenge. And so this summer actually I'm trying to go through and watch movies, old movies that I've never seen-

Samantha: Oh I love that.

Hannah: Like classic movies that I've never seen. And I thought I was really... I thought I'd seen a lot, but when it came down to it there's several I hadn't. And so it really started when the new Top Gun movie came out.

Samantha: Yeah. It's so good.

Hannah: I realized-

Samantha: Have you seen it yet, Christian?

Christian: No. I've not yet.

Samantha: It is worth your... It's so good.

Christian: I need to see it.

Hannah: It's such a feel good movie.

Samantha: It is a feel good movie.

Hannah: Such a good movie. So anyway, but it kind of... Like a big group of our friends were going to go see it when it came out. Yet I realized I've seen bits and pieces of the old Top Gun but I've never seen Top Gun all the way through. So one of my friends was like," You've never seen Top Gun. Well..." And then we got talking about all the other movies I hadn't seen. So I made a list of all these old movies. So I have watched Top Gun, I've watched Back to the Future, Jurassic Park. I'd never seen those-

Samantha: Oh my goodness.

Christian: Oh my gosh. That's good. I'm sure your husband is also loving that. He's like," This is so fun."

Samantha: ET? You had never seen ET?

Hannah: Never seen ET.

Samantha: Wow.

Christian: Wow.

Samantha: Was it scary to you as a kid? Because it used to freak me out.

Christian: We actually couldn't watch it as kids. I couldn't watch it until I was older. So...

Samantha: Well, I didn't know if you had like heard it was kind of creepy and maybe that turned you off.

Hannah: I did.

Samantha: Yeah.

Hannah: No. I think... I grew up in the country and we didn't have cable and I think that was half the problem.

Samantha: Yeah. That makes sense.

Christian: There you go.

Hannah: I don't know. So that's... Yeah. That's-

Christian: That's a very fun one.

Hannah: My fun summer-

Samantha: That's really fun. And a lot of those maybe your girls have probably watched with you.

Hannah: Yeah. We're watching them together for the first time.

Samantha: That's really cool.

Christian: Yeah, family movie nights. I love that.

Samantha: So how can people find you? How can people buy or subscribe to your meal plan or get your dietician services? Where can people find you?

Hannah: Yeah. So I'm on Instagram at wholesomenutritionco. Also on Facebook at the same Wholesome Nutrition Co. And then my website, you can hop on there. I've got some good blog posts and things like that too, there's some helpful information, and that is just www. wholesomenutritionco. com.

Samantha: Love that.

Christian: Yeah. Guys, we will make sure to link all of Hannah's resources and Instagram and all of that in our show notes so you guys can have an easy link that way. But thank you so much for joining us.

Hannah: Thank you guys.

Samantha: Yeah, thank you so much-

Christian: You have shared wisdom and this was really fun.

Hannah: It was fun. Thanks.

Samantha: Hey, thanks for Going There with us.

Christian: If you loved what you heard, don't forget to follow along with us @ goingtherethepodcast.

Samantha: And it also means so much to us if you subscribe to our podcast and shared it with a friend.

Christian: Talk to you soon.